There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. 474, ?] According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 Now, you could draw the obvious conclusion. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. Now, the great scholar of Greek religion, Walter Burkert, you quote him as musing, once-- and I'm going to quote him-- he says, "it may rather be asked, even without the prospect of a certain answer, whether the basis of the mysteries, they were prehistoric drug rituals, some festival imp of immortality which, through the expansion of consciousness, seemed to guarantee some psychedelic beyond." First act is your evidence for psychedelics among the so-called pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. But things that sound intensely powerful. I write it cognizant of the fact that the Eucharist doesn't work for many, many people. Did the potion at Eleusis change from generation to generation? So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. Now, I have no idea where it goes from here, or if I'll take it myself. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. I am excited . For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. No one lived there. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. What I see is data that's been largely neglected, and I think what serves this as a discipline is just that. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. Brian C. Muraresku - Priory Of Sion Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris And that's where oversight comes in handy. Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. When you start testing, you find things. Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. And I got to say, there's not a heck of a lot of eye rolling, assuming people read my afterword and try to see how careful I am about delineating what is knowable and what is not and what this means for the future of religion. So it wasn't just a random place to find one of these spiked wines. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? So this whole water to wine thing was out there. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And as a lawyer, I know what is probative and what's circumstantial evidence, and I just-- I don't see it there. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. Theories of Origins about Witch Hunts - King's College As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. This is true. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. . Now we're getting somewhere. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. CHARLES STANG: I have one more question about the pre-Christian story, and that has to do with that the other mystery religion you give such attention to. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. She had the strange sense that every moment was an eternity of its own. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. Maybe I'm afraid I'll take the psychedelic and I won't have what is reported in the literature from Hopkins and NYU. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving Here's another one. Thank you. The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? What was being thrown into it? And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. And I think that that's the real question here. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. I try to be careful to always land on a lawyer's feet and be very honest with you and everybody else about where this goes from here. There he is. And maybe in these near-death experiences we begin to actually experience that at a visceral level. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? So listening right now, there's at least one orthodox priest, there's at least one Catholic priest, an Episcopalian, an Anglican, and several others with whom I've been talking in recent months. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. Please materialize. The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. But with what were they mixed, and to what effect? The Tim Ferriss Show - Transcripts BRIAN MURARESKU: OK. We're going to get there very soon. I see it as-- well, OK, I'd see it as within a minority. I don't think we have found it. And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. Now you're a good sport, Brian. I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. And I'll just list them out quickly. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. I include that line for a reason. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. Church of the Saints Faustina and Liberata, view from the outside with the entrance enclosure, at "Sante" place, Capo di Ponte (Italy). And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Thank you. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. But clearly, when you're thinking about ancient Egypt or elsewhere, there's definitely a funerary tradition. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. An actual spiked wine. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - TopPodcast